Councillors have been recommended to approve a planning application to build 53 homes off Knox Lane in Bilton tomorrow.

Harrogate Borough Council‘s planning committee is due to meet tomorrow to vote on the scheme. The Queen’s death caused the meeting to be postponed last month.

A 30-page report to councillors by case officer Andy Hough recommends they approve the application by developer Jomast, subject to certain conditions, such as no objection from the local lead flood authority.

However, the councillors could decide to vote against the officer’s recommendation and reject the scheme. The meeting will be broadcast live at 2pm on the council’s YouTube page.

Mr Hough’s report says:

“Amendments to the plans reducing house numbers from 73 to 53 is welcome and the scheme is considered to now be in compliance with development plan policy.

“The site at present represents a transition from the suburban development that is characteristic of the Old Trough area, to the more vernacular loose form of frontage development situated at the hamlet of Knox.

“The frontage to the site has a very rural feel. To aid transition, the houses situated on the Knox Lane frontage have been set back into the site and are to be constructed at low density, behind new additional planting.”

The site is allocated for development in the Harrogate district Local Plan 2014-35, which outlines where planning can take place in the district.

Residents have said the scheme will decimate an idyllic and historic part of Bilton.

Knox Lane, leading to Spruisty Bridge

A councillor has claimed the majority of people in his ward now support a 20mph speed limit — but enforcement issues mean any change is unlikely.

Paul Haslam, who represents Old Bilton on Harrogate Borough Council, raised the issue with Zoe Metcalfe, the North Yorkshire Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner.

Speaking at a meeting of Harrogate Borough Council’s overview and scrutiny committee last week, Cllr Haslam asked Ms Metcalfe:

“In my area, Bilton and Woodfield, I would say the majority of residents want the whole area to be 20mph. At what stage will police enforce this?”

Campaigners across the country are calling for a speed limit of 20mph to be normal on residential streets and in town and village centres as part of the 20’s Plenty initiative.

Ms Metcalfe said the police and the council “don’t have the resources to be constantly enforcing a 20mph zone”, adding:

“I don’t necessarily agree with 20’s Plenty because for every one person that says they want 20mph there is one who says they don’t.”

She added she could see 20mph limits working “in certain circumstances, like outside a school,” but not as a general measure.

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Tom Thorp, assistant chief executive at the commissioner’s office, said “police enforcement of 20mph limits is difficult”. He said:

“The types of road that want to go 20mph are very residential urban roads and it’s simply not possible necessarily to do the enforcement on those roads easily.”

Mr Thorp and Ms Metcalfe agreed that although police enforcement was problematic, local authorities could introduce more targeted speed restriction measures, for instance speed humps and chicanes, in specific areas, such as near schools. Mr Thorp said:

“There’s an awful lot that we should be doing around prevention before we get to actual enforcement.”

He added North Yorkshire County Council already did this through the  York and North Yorkshire Road Safety Partnership, which is a partnership of agencies working tp reduce road deaths.

More speed cameras?

Cllr Haslam questioned why Bilton and Jennyfields appeared to have different approaches.

“If you go to Jennyfields you will see the whole Jennyfields estate is 20mph and I don’t see any reason why the residents of Bilton and Woodfield can’t have the same scenario.”

Cllr Haslam said “camera enforcement works” in 20mph zones in London, adding “I don’t see why we can’t look at that”.

But Mr Thorp said:

“There’s a significant cost to camera enforcement and if we were looking to do that across the piece I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess as to what that would cost.

“In terms of managing expectations, sometimes putting in 20mph makes it worse.”

Firefighters and councillors have called on Zoe Metcalfe, the Conservative police, fire and crime commissioner for North Yorkshire, to tackle the long-running issue of Starbeck crossing holding up emergency vehicles.

As many as nine trains an hour can pass through Starbeck Station heading to Leeds or York.

It means when the barriers are down there are waits of several minutes for all vehicles, including fire engines, police cars and ambulances.

At a Harrogate Borough Council meeting last night, Liberal Democrat councillor for Hookstone, Pat Marsh, asked Ms Metcalfe if she’d had feedback from firefighters about the problem as she believes delays could potentially be costing lives.

Cllr Marsh said:

“It worries me, that a five minute wait can be the difference between doing something and not.”

In response, Ms Metcalfe said the problem has been raised to her by both firefighters at Harrogate and Knaresborough fire stations.

However, she said firefighters “know exactly what times trains come and go” and can also use other routes to avoid the crossing.

Ms Metcalfe said:

“I went back to the fire service and they quite rightly said that out of Knaresborough fire station you can also turn left out of the fire station and go into Harrogate via Morrisons. They can also go into Starbeck and can turn right into Bogs Lane.

“There’s not just one way into Harrogate. Even if they did get to a crossing they can call ahead (to Network Rail) to let them know they are coming down.”

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Her response didn’t please fellow Conservative and councillor for Old Bilton, Paul Haslam, who also chairs Transport for the North‘s scrutiny committee.

Cllr Haslam told Ms Metcalfe he was “a little disappointed that you weren’t upset about the crossing at Starbeck”, particularly as it’s an issue that was raised to her by the firefighters themselves.

He added:

“I’ve tried for five or six years to get Network Rail to improve technology that would reduce waiting time to two minutes but they’ve refused to do it at the moment.

“I feel if your firemen had been upset that could have been leverage. I’m concerned about it for lots of reasons. The cars are just idling.

“Network Rail have told me all the reasons they can’t do it but they’ve also told me what technology they need.”

Ms Metcalfe promised Cllr Haslam that she would raise the issue with Network Rail.

The proposed closure of Woodfield Community Primary School is “an absolute disgrace” driven by ideology rather than common sense, according to Unison.

Wendy Nichols, branch secretary of the North Yorkshire branch of the trade union, has written to members at the school pledging to support them as they face the prospect of losing their jobs.

The letter, seen by the Stray Ferret, says Bilton needs a community school and the union will lobby North Yorkshire County Council to keep the current one open.

The letter also calls for a change in the law requiring state-run schools to close if they get an inadequate Ofsted rating and then can’t find an academy sponsor, as has happened to Woodfield. It says:

“Academisation has created a two-tier education system, but research is now showing that council-maintained schools perform better than academy schools.

“The government is driven by its own ideology that paints local authorities as being bad, and academies as being good. We think this is wrong, and is part of the reason why Woodfield primary school is facing closure.”

Absolute disgrace. Woodfield Primary is part of the community it serves. Closure is result of ideological narrow-minded government policy. Staff, children and the conmunity deserve better. @AJonesMP @antiacademies

Closure consultation for primary schoolhttps://t.co/YTXMDQEazb

— North Yorkshire UNISON (@NYUnison) May 15, 2022

Woodfield school was rated inadequate by Ofsted in 2020 and placed into special measures.

The rating meant the school had to become a sponsored academy, but it failed to find a backer.

A proposed merger with Grove Road Community Primary School then fell through this year, prompting the county council to open a consultation on closing the school in the next academic year.

Paul Haslam, who represents Bilton and Nidd Gorge on the county council and is a governor at Woodfield school, insisted a final decision has not yet been made.

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The Conservative councillor said the views of parents and the local community will have a “big sway” in the outcome. He said:

“Just because there is a consultation to consider closing, it doesn’t necessarily mean the school will close.

“It does mean there are difficulties and nobody is hiding from that fact.

“It will be a very important consultation when it gets started and I will be very keen for lots of people – not just parents – to get involved.”

Decline in pupils

Woodfield has fallen into financial difficulties ever since a big drop in pupil numbers in 2018. At the time, the school had 155 pupils, but this has now dwindled to 37 with 11 pupils due to leave in July.

And because pupil numbers determine the level of funding that a school receives, Woodfield has forecast to be in a deficit of £329,800 by 2023/24.

The school has had six different headteachers over the last four years.

Cllr Haslam said he was “devastated” that the school has found itself in this situation, but added he believes it could have a future if there is demand for pupil places.

He said:

“I believe Woodfield should have a school – it is an area of deprivation and we all know the best way of deprivation is good education.

“What I want to see at Woodfield is a high-calibre school that the people deserve.

“The leadership has developed a great curriculum and really set the school on its way. If we were able to get back to 70 or 80 pupils, that would show progress and we would be able to work out of this.

“But on the pupil numbers that we currently have, that is not going to work.”

The Liberal Democrats whooped with joy; the Conservative slunk quietly out the door.

To anyone at last week’s election count in Harrogate, it seemed like the Lib Dems had swept to power.

The result appeared to reinforce this, with 10 Lib Dems elected in the Harrogate district compared with nine Tories, one Green and one Independent.

The Lib Dems celebrate at the count.

But at a council meeting on Wednesday, Conservative Carl Les is set to be named leader of the Conservative-controlled North Yorkshire County Council.

Across the county as a whole, the Conservatives won 47 of the 90 seats, meaning they have a majority of three and — by-elections and defections permitting — will hold power for the remaining year of the county council’s life and for the following first four years of North Yorkshire Council’s existence.

But things are not quite that simple.

The Lib Dems took control of the Harrogate and Knaresborough Area Constituency Committee, which is one of six area committees on North Yorkshire County Council that scrutinise the impact of policy decisions on local areas.

There is also the prospect of the Lib Dems repeating their success in elections for a new Harrogate town council if, as expected, one is formed to replace Harrogate Borough Council, which will be swallowed up in 10 months by North Yorkshire Council.

Lib Dems ‘will be able to influence things more’

David Goode, who was the sole Lib Dem on the area constituency committee before the election, said his goal had been to secure seven councillors in Harrogate and Knaresborough to assume control of the 13-person committee. Eight were elected.

David Goode

Matt Walker, who won the Knaresborough West division, said:

“We had a plan and we exceeded that. We planned to take control of the area committee so we can get some proper representation in the district. It means we will be able to influence things more.”

Area constituency committees, however, currently have few powers and are often described as little more than talking shops.

Read more:

• Why election victory means so much for Harrogate and Knaresborough’s Lib Dems
• Labour admits ‘challenging’ elections in Harrogate district

But their powers could be beefed-up under North Yorkshire Council.

Double devolution

Cllr Les pledged to pursue a policy of “double devolution” in the run-up to the elections by handing down some powers, including to the area committees.

Carl Les

Speaking after the vote, he said:

“We are still committed to double devolution. I think it would be dishonest of us to renege on that principle.

“We will continue to work on delivering it.”

But what powers will the new area committees have?

Pat Marsh, the Lib Dem leader on Harrogate Borough Council, said she believed they could include key issues such as planning and highways, and include some funding. She asked:

“if the area committees don’t have power over planning, how will the new council be able to manage the volume of planning applications across the county?”

Conservative Graham Swift, perhaps the highest profile scalp taken by the Lib Dems at the election, used his speech after his result was announced to remind everyone the Conservatives had secured an overall majority — and still held the levers to power.

Graham Swift’s speech at the count.

Paul Haslam, whose large majority in Bilton and Nidd Gorge was one of the few local Conservative highlights, told the Stray Ferret

“It’s about consensus and working with people. I’m quite relaxed about it. The Lib Dems are passionate about our local area, just as much as myself and my fellow Conservatives. I’m willing to work with anyone.”

Harrogate town council

Harrogate and Scarborough are currently the only towns in North Yorkshire without town councils, and their loss of district councils seems likely to precipitate the creation of them.

But town councils usually have no greater powers than parish councils. If North Yorkshire Council ends up making key decisions on Harrogate Convention Centre and the Stray, people in Harrogate could end up railing against policymakers in Northallerton just as many people in Ripon do now about policymakers in Harrogate.

Richard Cooper, the leader of Harrogate Borough Council, told the Local Democracy Reporting Service that the Conservatives’ poor showing in the Harrogate district was largely down to voters sending a message to Prime Minister Boris Johnson rather than local issues.

Zombie council

But with Cllr Cooper not seeking re-election, last week’s result marked a sea change in the local Conservative landscape.

His departure and the defeats of key allies such as Graham Swift, Matt Scott, Phil Ireland and Tim Myatt mean there will be a changing of the old guard that has dominated for so long.

Harrogate Borough Council

With abolition looming in 10 months time, Harrogate Borough Council faces the prospect of becoming a zombie council with power ebbing away by the day.

But the new landscape — and to what extent the opposition Lib Dems will be influencing it — remains to be seen.

Harrogate district election results

Bilton and Nidd Gorge

Paul Haslam, Conservatives – WON with 1,017 votes
Andrew Kempston-Parkes, Liberal Democrats – 663
Deborah Havercroft, Labour Party – 285

Bilton Grange and New Park

Monika Slater, Liberal Democrats – WON with 968 votes
Matthew Scott, Conservatives – 677
Andrew Zigmond, Labour Party – 159
Tamsin Worrall, Green Party – 123

Boroughbridge and Claro

Robert Windass, Conservatives – WON with 936 votes
Jon Starkey, Independent – 486
Andy Bell, Liberal Democrats – 433
Clark Pearson, Green Party – 169
Noel Evans, Independent – 96

Coppice Valley and Duchy

Peter Lacey, Liberal Democrats – WON with 940 votes
Graham Swift, Conservatives – 739
Daniel Thompson, Independent – 199
Patricia Foxall, Labour Party – 126
Leighton Regayre, Green Party – 84

Fairfax and Starbeck

Philip Broadbank, Liberal Democrats – WON with 921 votes
Sue Lumby, Conservatives – 442
Christopher Watt, Labour Party – 337
Gordon Schallmo, Green Party – 103

Harlow and St Georges

Mike Schofield, Liberal Democrats – WON with 1,245 votes
Steven Jackson, Conservatives – 805
Sarah Hart, Independent – 345
John Adams, Labour Party – 169
Andrew Rickard, Green Party – 149

High Harrogate and Kingsley

Chris Aldred, Liberal Democrats – WON with 1,019 votes
Tim Myatt, Conservatives – 760
Geoffrey Foxall, Labour Party – 263

Killinghall, Hampsthwaite and Saltergate

Michael Harrison, Conservatives – WON with 1,016 votes
David Goode, Liberal Democrats – 465
Edward Clayson, Labour Party – 251
Bill Rigby, Green Party – 124

Knaresborough East

Hannah Gostlow, Liberal Democrats – WON with 1,169 votes
Ed Darling, Conservatives – 767
Sharon-Theresa Calvert, Labour Party – 276

Knaresborough West

Matt Walker, Liberal Democrats – WON with 1,316 votes
Phil Ireland, Conservatives – 988
David Tom Crosthwaite, Labour Party – 328

Masham and Fountains

Margaret Atkinson, Conservatives – WON with 1,076 votes
Felicity Cunliffe-Lister, Independent – 738
Judith Hooper, Liberal Democrats – 620

Oatlands and Pannal

John Mann, Conservatives – WON with 1,175 votes
Justin Chan, Liberal Democrats – 820
Gillian Charters, Green Party – 266
Margaret Smith, Labour Party – 250

Ouseburn

Arnold Warneken, Green Party – WON with 1,328 votes
Richard Musgrave, Conservatives – 586

Pateley Bridge and Nidderdale

Andrew Murday, Liberal Democrats – WON with 1,002 votes
Stanley Lumley, Conservatives – 807
Alison Harris, Yorkshire Party – 65

Ripon Minster and Moorside

Andrew Williams, Independent – WON with 1,453 votes
Tom Cavell-Taylor, Liberal Democrats – 334
Thomas James Averre, Conservatives – 312

Ripon Ure Bank and Spa

Barbara Brodigan, Liberal Democrats – WON with 985 votes
Sid Hawke, Independent – 734
Mike Chambers, Conservatives – 556
Robin Burgess, Green Party – 151

Spofforth with Lower Wharfedale and Tockwith

Andy Paraskos, Conservatives – WON with 929 votes
Alexandra Marsh, Green Party – 630
John Hall, Yorkshire Party – 158

Stray, Woodlands and Hookstone

Pat Marsh, Liberal Democrats – WON with 1,350 votes
John Ennis, Conservatives – 910
Helen Burke, Labour Party – 189
Anna McIntee, Independent – 167

Valley Gardens and Central Harrogate

Sam Gibbs, Conservatives – WON with 871 votes
David Johnson, Liberal Democrats – 545
Andrew Williamson, Labour Party – 275
Lucy Jayne Gardiner, Independent – 331
Paul Ferrigno, Green Party – 162

Washburn and Birstwith

Nathan Hull, Conservatives – WON with 891 votes
Tom Watson, Liberal Democrats – 713
Paul Trewhitt, Green Party – 201
Ian Galloway, Independent – 162

Wathvale and Bishop Monkton

Nick Brown, Conservatives – WON with 1,334 votes
Chris Knight, Liberal Democrats – 559
Hannah Katherine Corlett, Green Party – 455

A review into car parking at train stations across the Harrogate district has been criticised as a “lost opportunity”.

Transport officials at North Yorkshire County Council launched the review to look into where parking could be expanded in order to encourage the use of public transport and stop parked vehicles spilling over onto residential streets.

The findings were discussed at a meeting today when councillor Paul Haslam, who represents Bilton and Nidd Gorge, said he was “disappointed” that residents were not asked where they believe investment is needed the most. He said:

“There doesn’t seem to have been any discussion with any user groups.

“I would have thought they might have been able to share some very important information – we need to know what our customers want.”

Cllr Haslam said while the review was “very measured,” it was a “lost opportunity” to also look into how access to train stations can be made easier for those travelling on foot or by bike.

He told today’s meeting of the Harrogate and Knaresborough Area Constituency Committee:

“I would have hoped this review could have looked at safe and secure storage for bikes, bus stop provision and other access in terms of cycle routes.

“Train stations are going to be what we will call transport transition hubs in the future and we have to facilitate these changes so people can get off their bike and onto a train, or out of their car and onto a bus.”

His comments were backed by councillor Don Mackenzie, executive member for access at the county council, who added:

“We must look at other means of connecting people to railway stations and not simply in their cars.”

More parking at Pannal

The review highlights how new car parking will be built at Pannal train station as part of the ongoing housing development at the former Dunlopillo site.

Construction work has yet to start on the car park and it is unclear when this could begin.

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Cattal train station has also been identified for improved parking as part of a 3,000-home settlement which is planned for the area because of its railway links.

There are no plans to upgrade parking at train stations in Starbeck, Knaresborough or Weeton, as well Harrogate which a report said already has extra capacity at the Victoria multi-storey car park.

Another area which has been identified for potential improvements is Hornbeam Park train station where previous proposals to expand the car park were met with concerns that it could encourage more car journeys on the already congested Hookstone Road.

Traffic impact

Graham North, strategic support officer at the county council, told today’s meeting that extra car parking had been considered again, although it could have had a “significant” impact on traffic.

Mr North also set out some of the reasons why parking upgrades are needed at other train stations, but can not be achieved.

He said:

“The Harrogate line has had significant improvements in frequency including the recent improvements between York and Harrogate.

“We have also had modern rolling stock, station improvements and the introduction of the LNER services to and from London which are all potentially increasing demand for rail travel.

“The rail industry has looked at each station to identify any land available for car parking close to stations and whilst some land has been identified the cost to purchase, access to and from the sites and the poor business cases have meant that these were not developed further.”

A Harrogate councillor has questioned why secondary schools in the county receive less funding per pupil than most other places.

North Yorkshire secondary schools are placed 138 out of 150 local authorities in terms of funding per pupil.

On average, a school in North Yorkshire has received £5,570 per pupil for 2021-22 compared to the national average of £5,935.

A report to councillors at today’s meeting of North Yorkshire County Council‘s Harrogate and Knaresborough area constituency committee said that for a 1,500-pupil secondary school, this equated to a difference in funding of £0.5m.

Paul Haslam, a Conservative who represents Harrogate Bilton and Nidd Gorge division on the county council, described the situation as unacceptable and wanted to know why the figure for North Yorkshire was “way below” that of other local authority areas.

He told the meeting:

“I just wondered what we as councillors can do to help because this clearly is not an acceptable position.”

Andrew Jones to be asked to help

Philip Broadbank, a Liberal Democrat who represents Harrogate Starbeck, suggested Andrew Jones, the Conservative MP for Harrogate and Knaresborough, could lobby national government on behalf of local schools.

Mr Jones is due to attend the council’s next Harrogate and Knaresborough area constituency committee in March.

Mr Broadbank said:

“Our MPs are there to lobby. This is something we can ask Andrew about at our next meeting.”

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Sally Dunn, head of finance for early years and high need at the council, said school funding was based on the Department for Education’s national funding formula.

She added the formula was based on factors such as deprivation and prior attainment and the DfE was in the process of transitioning the criteria.

Ms Dunn added it was “an issue we continue to lobby on and we continue to speak to the DfE on a very regular basis”, adding that there was most concern for small rural secondary schools, which faced “significant financial pressures”.

Primary schools fare better

North Yorkshire primary schools fare better: they are placed 35 out of 150 local authorities in terms of funding.

Primary schools in the county receive on average £4,715 per pupil compared to the national average of £4,611.

Wreaths were laid this morning at a newly restored memorial at Grove Road cemetery that contains the names of 16 men from the Bilton and High Harrogate areas who lost their lives in the First World War.

It was attended by around a dozen people who listened to the Last Post and observed a two-minute silence at 11am to mark Remembrance Day.

Paul Haslam, a Conservative councillor who represents Harrogate Old Bilton on Harrogate Borough Council and Harrogate Bilton and Nidd Gorge on North Yorkshire County Council, spearheaded a campaign to see the dilapidated memorial restored in time for Remembrance Day.

Cllr Haslam said:

“In 2018 we promised to restore it to its former glory. Three years later we have achieved it.

“It commemorates the sacrifice of those who died and the tragedy of war.”

Mayor of Harrogate Trevor Chapman and Cllr Paul Haslam laid wreaths.

When the nearby methodist church was converted to flats, the memorial was relocated to the cemetery where it was left in parts on pallets, almost forgotten in the undergrowth. Work to restore it cost about £6,000 and was paid for by Harrogate Borough Council.

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Cllr Haslam’s wife Kath researched the histories of the men it names.

These include Fred W.C Horner, who was only 19 when he was killed. Charles V. Bell and John W. Fishburn both were killed on the first day of the Battle of the Somme.

Dean Alexander and Nathan Proctor, two Ripon-based builders who are also ex-Royal Engineer soldiers worked to restore the memorial.

Mr Alexander said:

“It was a great honour to rebuild it.”

A mystery carver is turning felled trees into seats in Nidd Gorge.

Since the weekend, at least two trees have been transformed into seats — and the artisan even appears to sign his or her work.

Paul Haslam, the Conservative councillor for Harrogate Old Bilton on Harrogate District Council, posted about the phenomenon after noticing it twice since the weekend.

He told the Stray Ferret the trees, believed to be conifers, were probably felled as part of a policy to remove non-indigenous species, and they appeared to have been lying on the ground for years.

Both seats that have appeared bear this symbol, which suggests the carver is signing the work.

Cllr Haslam added it appeared the person uses traditional hand tools, adding it was a great use of natural resources.

His job as an executive coach involves teaching people to lead stress-free lives and he said being close to nature could help to achieve this.

He added on his Facebook page:

“Thank you for creating places for people to sit and appreciate the tranquility. Being in nature is vital to our wellbeing.”

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A Harrogate conservative councillor has suggested a rail station could be built near Claro Road to ease the town’s congestion problems.

Paul Haslam, who lives in Bilton and represents the area on both North Yorkshire County Council and Harrogate District Council, is gathering support for the idea.

He thinks a station could be built near the footbridge at Dragon Junction between Harrogate and Starbeck stations on the Leeds to York line.

He told the Stray Ferret the station would be a “win-win” for Harrogate because it could reduce traffic congestion on Skipton Road, improve links to the Claro Court Business Centre and improve the quality of life for local residents.

He said it would also promote cycling because of its proximity to the Nidderdale Greenway.

Cllr Haslam said:

“I am convinced this would make significant inroads to congestion on Skipton Road, our quality of air, our reduction in CO2 emissions and most importantly the quality of life to those who live in this area.

“It should also improve links to the business park and therefore help local prosperity and jobs. Adding a supermarket would also add jobs whilst improving the facilities in the area.”

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Cllr Haslam said he has had conversations about the idea with North Yorkshire County Council, which would need to undertake a feasibility study to determine costs.

The government is keen to open new rail stations and last year awarded funding to help bring back ‘forgotten’ stations axed in the Beeching cuts during the 1960s.

A new rail station opened in Wales earlier this week at an estimated cost of £8 million, but it took over 11 years to develop the plans.

The latest station to open in the Harrogate district was Hornbeam Park in 1992, which was used by 400,000 passengers in 2019/20 and is a popular stop for commuters and visitors.

Don Mackenzie, executive member for highways at North Yorkshire County Council, told the Stray Ferret he supported the idea of a Claro Road station.

However, he said that due to a lack of funding the chances of it being built were slim, and that any final decision would be made by Network Rail.

He added:

“Just as I supported Hornbeam Park 30 years ago I would be supportive of this, but I can’t see it happening any time soon.”